Why I Am An Atheist

#1) I am an atheist because the god believer has
the burden of proof when trying to establish the
existence of a god and has not met that burden:
The
burden of proof is on the god believer to prove that a god
exists. It is not up to the atheist to disprove what has never
been established in the first place. So often, I am told, "You
cannot prove that there is no god." This is backwards
reasoning. I am not obligated to disprove that a leprechaun
is standing beside you. You must first prove to me that one
is there. Otherwise, I am under no obligation to accept your
leprechaun hypothesis. The default position would be
"anti-leprechaunism," you could say. Is it possible that a
leprechaun is next to you? Sure, but I have no reason to
believe such a thing, and until I do, I will keep being an
"anti-leprechaunist"! The same applies to gods and
goddesses of all varieties. On all counts, the theist fails to
meet his burden of proof and therefore, atheism stands by
default.

#2) I am an atheist because all the world's religions
have failed to demonstrate that they are ways to a
god:
They are all based on the ignorance of man trying to
explain the world in terms he can understand. Religions (or
the notions that later became religions) were built to enable
man to feel that he controlled his destiny and the natural
world around him, yet these religions exhibit no signs that a
supernatural being is behind them, not one. None of them
have been able to demonstrate supernatural origins at all.
None of them have been able to tell us what science has
told us about the origin of our universe. Why don't any of
them speak of the big bang as our origin? Basically, there is
nothing about any of them that compels the educated mind
of today to give them a second look. Every religion is just as
desperate and hopeless as the next. All of them are trying to
heighten man's place in a world of catastrophe and pain.
How sad!

#3) I am an atheist because all I know is the natural
world:
All of my senses are for the natural world. My desires
and longings are fleshly in nature. No deity has manifested
himself in our purely physical world: One thing about these
gods and goddesses is their terrible timing and planning!
Their strange methodology and tendencies to keep hiding
when we need them the most is undeniable.

I am supposed to believe that a being invisible to the naked
eye is lurking above the heavens, is great enough to guide
my life, hear my every prayer, and direct my every step, but
for some strange reason, refuses to manifest himself directly
to his highest creation man? I have never talked to this
being even once. I must ask, why? I used to think this a
selfish line of questioning, but now I can find not one good
reason to keep guessing why a God who loves and wants so
much for us would refuse to acknowledge his physical
existence. Very simply, I am weary of anyone who claims
ownership of our bodies and even our very "souls," and yet I
am compelled to dispute his existence! Not only that, I see
no miracles, no resurrections, no signs in the heavens, no
accurate revelations to man. I observe absolutely nothing
that makes me to look "beyond the clouds" for a god.

The mystic and the psychic tell me there is a "third eye" I
can open by meditating and using the right drugs. They tell
me nonsense like the idea that I only use 10% of my brain
and that the other sections are roped off for "the spiritual
man to uncover." This is a spooky world for the mystic. He
accepts telekinesis, psychic surgery, UFO abductions, crop
circle phenomenon, Ouija boards, and pseudo-scientific
claims on every level. He believes in an immortal nature
within man, a human spirit that can leave and enter the body
with the right "enlightenment." Haunted houses and
unexplained phenomenon are exaggerated to be ghostly
encounters when these explanations grossly fail to pass the
tests of critical examination.

When all of the hoopla is cleared away, I am left with nature,
mundane and boring as it sometimes can be. If I am
confined to live in and abide by the rules of a natural world,
then I must try and explain my world on the very same
principles. Again, all I can see and verify is the natural, so it
makes no sense to draw crazy conclusions that there is a
"non-matter" entity out there that runs the show. The law of
rationality demands that I draw only those conclusions that
are warranted by the evidence: I see, hear, feel, touch, and
smell nature. I am obligated to find the simplest answer that
accounts for my observational data and sensory perceptions
of the world.

#4) I am an atheist because being so enables me to
make honest decisions about things in the world
around me:
Not being committed to a doctrine enables me
to study the world and accept what I see as a valid
explanation of itself. The religious man, particularly the
fundamentalist, is enslaved to a doctrine, a belief system
that must be right at all costs. He must reason backwards,
finding evidences that back up his preconceived ideas. His
eternal soul rests on justifying what he already believes true.
Therefore, his objectivity is lost in the process.

For instance, the Christian must accept all bible
discrepancies and atrocities as just and right actions from a
just and right God. He must accept everything the book
reveals, lock, stock, and barrel. He cannot discriminate
based on reason what he will or will not accept. One of the
biggest benefits of science to man is that science is
self-correcting, unlike theology! When a scientist and his
work are found to be wrong, his next step is to correct it, or if
he can't, to throw it out. Science rectifies itself whereas
archaic theology will always remain the same.

#5) I am an atheist because faith is a flawed system
to live by:
"But where does faith come in?," the Christian
asks. "No where at all," I reply. Faith is a flawed system to
live by. Think about it for a minute. Every religious American
every Sunday or Saturday goes to his/her church with the
same belief that god is encouraging their actions. The
Seventh Day Adventist feels that god has led him to accept
the ten commandments as still binding today. He disagrees
with his Baptist and Methodist neighbors he adores so
much. Meanwhile, the Baptist and Methodist neighbors go to
their own churches and sing another worn out verse to
"Amazing Grace." They listen to the charming preacher and
get their feel good pills for the week. They've been told that
their sins are forgiven. They are saved by faith alone. The
Church of Christ Scientist believes that god has forbidden
the use of medications. Their children can die for lack of
them, but by faith, they walk their spiritual walk onward
believing they are pleasing God. The Mormon arrives at his
worship hour waiting to be encouraged and strengthened for
taking such criticism from the rest of Christianity that he has
been receiving all week for following Joseph Smith, that
great prophet who founded their church. He is happy to sing
another verse of, "Give Me Back My Prophet," in his Mormon
hymn book.

What's wrong with this picture? The problem with this picture
is faith. This I-don't-know-but-I-believe-god-is-with-me idea is
the very cause of the division Christianity keeps producing.
Everyone in our scenario above is a victim of faith. He
believes God is with him but has no way of establishing the
truth of the matter. In a way, believers, especially the
evangelical type, are salesman: they (a) create a need for
their product in convincing people they have a problem. And
(b) they show why their product is the ideal cure, and that
(c) brand(s) X(other faiths and religions) are not as good as
theirs! There are conversions every which way, into and out
of every religion worldwide. What does god really want?
Which church is his church? Does he even desire Sunday
worship at all? You will never know for sure, but you can
"have faith," empty and not so reassuring as it is. This
system will never work for one who must have answers. Go
to your local library and educate yourself on matters of
science if you long for better assurance of facts. Those who
desire closure and security will never find it in Christianity. It
is not there to be had. No assurance cannot be called
"blessed assurance."

#6) I am an atheist because I got tired of playing
the guessing game:
This was probably the hardest
aspect of Christianity to cope with. Christianity was a game,
a guessing game where you tried with all your heart to find
out what God wanted for you, but never could make sense
of anything that happened around you. I grew tired of trying
to guess just where and how God was involved in my life.

The same guessing game would sprout up every time a
tragedy sprung up on one of God's people. Brother Bob was
killed in a car wreck on the way to a gospel meeting. He was
going to preach the gospel of Christ that night, but was killed
thanks to a drunk driver. Surely God would have wanted this
brother alive? He was going to preach his word. Brother Bob
was walking in the light and following the Lord. What
happened? It was in god's power to prevent this tragedy.
That puts this tragedy on God. I thought God was supposed
to be there for us in times of need? Were there too many
preachers and this was God's way of firing brother Bob?
Was he going to preach soul-damning error and the Lord
was doing us all a favor by eliminating him? Did he have
some sordid sin in his life that God was tired of seeing and
decided that it was time for brother Bob to cash in his chips?
Was brother Bob's family being chastened by God by his
death to strengthen them, or how about me maybe?

When I would pray and ask God for something and got no
answer, the mind naturally begins to consider why. "Maybe
God did not grant my prayer request because it was not in
accordance with his will for me? Maybe God will answer it,
but will do in his own time. How long will that be and how do I
know when I receive such an answer? When the prayer is
answered, how do I know it would not have happened
anyway? What if God told me no? But wait, my request was
definitely in accordance with his will I know, so why do I see
no results? Maybe I am not praying long and hard enough.
Guess I'll just keep praying and waiting for something to
happen."

When it comes to the will of the gods, the questions and
possibilities are as endless as the grains of sand on planet
earth. Too many strange things happen not to question the
nature of these things. I must confess, if what some theists
say is true and God has a "secret plan that we humans will
just never understand," then I've got to hand it to him, he
has done the best job anyone could ever do! No one could
possibly make sense of all the tragedies, unexplained
deaths, religious confusion, natural phenomenon, and
heartache that he allows to go on every day of this life. I
never knew or could know if and what God ever did. I had to
live each day with the same confusion every body else faced
with no way to identify what was and was not God's will. I
decided I was finished guessing and ready to start knowing!
It all got old. I couldn't take it any longer.

#7) I am an atheist because I got tired of trying to
find connections where there were none:
One big
tendency of the human mind is to see connections where
none exist. Let's look at the Christian apologist's approach
to finding evidences of bible inspiration.

The Christians have long maintained that certain events in
the Old Testament are foreshadowings of the New
Testament, particularly in the life of Christ. For example,
theists say that Joseph and Jesus are types of each other.
Joseph was rejected by his brothers, and after spending
time in a pit (a symbol of the grave), Joseph was exalted and
his brethren revered him. Jesus was rejected by his people
and after his crucifixion, was exalted, and his brothers (in
faith) revered him.

In the first judgment of the earth in the days of Noah, God
swore he would never again use water to vanquish evil.
Instead, just the opposite of water, fire is to be God's new
weapon of choice (2 Peter 3:10).

Any time a freethinker finds fault with Christ's decision to wait
over two thousand years to come back to earth, theologians
are excited to point out that the skeptics are "fulfilling the
prophecy of Peter" in 2 Peter 3:5, "In the last time mockers
shall come walking after their lusts and saying, 'where is the
promise of his coming'?"

In Exodus 32, the people of Israel sinned by worshipping the
golden calf. God is angry with the people for their sins and
purposes to destroy Israel. Moses acts as a mediator for the
people in persuading God to spare them. Theologians draw
attention to how Christ does the same for us before the
father (I Timothy 2:5). Not to mention, both were marked for
death at birth, and both had a radiant face, etc.

The above scriptural comparisons are examples of how the
Christian theist reasons. In light of these cited instances, it
seems to be happy hunting ground for the theist. He has so
many "foreshadowing evidences" of inspiration. Of course,
to reason this way is unfounded. There are no connections
between the events of the Old Testament characters and
the New Testament's Son of God that are genuine. Jesus
and Joseph have only as much in common as the myth
makers of the New Testament wanted Christ to be like. Even
if the Christ myth was based on a real individual, the cited
connections are far from remarkable. The same is obvious
of Moses and Christ. There can be no "prophetic
connections" because the New Testament was written after
the Old. All of the Jewish qualities seen in Jesus were so
created to appeal to the Jews and pagans, respectively.
Peter's "prophecy" of mockers is all but indicative of a
distinct saintly voice trying to slow down the inevitable
decline of faith in a mythical savior who stood his disciples
up and has never returned, or at best, proved to be a savior
who abandoned his cult because of inevitable human
mortality.

I can remember being so charmed with these and a hundred
more little "examples of inspirations" I thought I found. But as
I said, theists find connections where there are none.
Obscure passages come to life for them because of their
burning convictions that passages do, in fact, say what they
so badly want to believe about them. Without this
bridge-building, passage-connecting "faith," a study of the
bible is only a study of an ancient text reflecting the views of
the time in which it was written. Without blind and
overly-optimistic faith, the "good book" is nothing more than
an ancient capsule of obsolete theology from an age long
gone. It will fail every critical test and offer little to a new and
modern world.

#8) I am an atheist because man is an animal and
not a special creation or divinely destined creature:

Animals, regardless of intelligence, are animals, and animals
are beasts of nature, products of a savage world, hardly
worthy of the standards of a Heaven or Hell. Perhaps the
late Charles Lee Smith, President and founder of the
America Association for the Advancement of Atheism, said it
best in his debate with O.C. Oliphant, "The descendants of
apes need no savior." [The Oliphant-Smith Debate, p. 34.
1929] How true! Geology, biology, and just about every
other academic field will verify this fact.

A stout look at our physical make-up will reveal that we
humans eat, sleep, procreate, and defecate-- along with the
rest of the animals. We get goose bumps when we are cold
or scared to help our "fur" stand taller and thus, have a
better chance of survival. Our fingers have nails on their
ends, remnants of claws from a very long time ago. They are
made of keratin, the same substance which composes all
claws. To this day, members of our society suffer herniated
disks and foot and arch problems due to our lack of
adaptation to walking upright on land. This kill-or-be-killed
nature of the world shows a very cruel god, in fact, an
infinitely evil god, if one exists at all! What would we do to a
genius scientist who, if he had a choice in the matter, chose
to set up a system of life where higher life forms eat the
lower ones! We would find it unthinkably cruel, but we give
god a pass on it! As I said, Infinitely evil!

Man is an animal, despite his big brain, his relatively hairless
physique, his proudly upright posture, and his washed and
deodorized body! DNA used to conduct paternity tests and
tell us who the father and mother of a child is, will tell the
story of our evolutionary descent and kinship with every
other life form on earth. We share over 98% of our DNA with
our closest cousins, the chimpanzees. Other forms of life,
beginning with mammals, going on down through
amphibians, reptiles, and bacteria show successively less
genetic similarity to us. This conclusively proves our kinship
to the animal kingdom.

#9) I am an atheist because Christianity (and all
theism) manifests self-centered arrogance, the
height of unfounded pride, and pompousness
egotism:
Often the atheist is accused of being the arrogant
one in a discussion of spiritual vs. materialistic matters, but
the Christian is the guilty one. I can imagine no more
arrogant of a philosophy than one which states that
intelligent man is the greatest and most prized creation in
the universe. Isn't this convenient? The mighty silverback
with his strength, or the bull elephant is not so loved, nor is
the industrious otter the #1 creation, though he works so
tirelessly to build a great home and dam that is truly a work
of wildlife art. In addition to being a great builder, the otter
manages not to kill his own kind as humans do. It is man who
is capable of so much more than every other creature, he is
the greatest. On top of our many accomplishments, we have
sky spirits that take special interest. Wow! Now our heads
get even bigger!

The arrogance of Christianity is seen in the purpose of God
for man. I must ask why the omnipotent creator of heaven
and earth needs lowly me to do anything? The child likes to
play in his backyard and pretend that the general has called
him on a secret and very important mission to accomplish.
The same type of childish motive is found in Christianity. I
am commissioned to bring a message to those around me
who do not have it, in order to establish their hearts as
dwelling places for God. Souls are at risk! The mission is
crucial! Why didn't the almighty bother to take the time and
implant his important knowledge in everyone's mind? Why
does the almighty need me to do anything he could do by
the slightest of thoughts? If there is humility in serving God
and trusting some unknown higher power to reveal the deep
mysteries of life, then where is the humility in believing in
only one God? Why not a god for the trees, the animals, the
different rocks, and the seas, and mountains? Are
polytheists more humble?

This God business is a big business and has gone through
a lot of changes through the last few millennia. The seafarer
of old watched the stars. The old world farmer trusted the
sun and the gods of vegetation. Today, the good
Bible-believing Christian trusts his three-in-one God to give
him purpose, hope, and a home beyond the clouds, which
brings us to the next little arrogant aspect of Christianity,
eternal life. Why I must live on after the grave is arguably
the most selfish thing of all. Once I arrive, what makes me so
important that I am indispensable? Why must I abide
forever? Isn't it interesting how we hear so little about the
great before and so much about the great beyond? The
arrogance of Christianity is definitely a comforting religious
notion for man, for it tells him how undeniably important he is
to the universe itself. He is at the center of it and it revolves
around him. Can't I live out my days here in dignity with
sobriety and honesty? The real humility of materialism says
"yes" while arrogant theism says "no." If it were up to
believers in fundamentalist Christianity, there wouldn't even
be a space program!

#10) I am an atheist because the natural sciences
bankrupt the bible, and theism in general:
Astronomy,
usually held to be one of the most awe-inspiring proofs of
God, was one of my biggest hurts of faith. I did not see a
hand of god declaring his glory in the heavens. I see a
myriad of stars, some brighter and more glorious than our
own.

I see one planet teaming with life amidst gaseous, lethal
pockets of stardust and radiation, pure chaos in action! Our
solar system bears the scars of its cruel evolution. The
planet Mercury is so close to the sun that she scorches on
one side and freezes on the other. Venus, though originally
much like earth, has been consumed by heat hot enough to
melt lead! A runaway greenhouse effect got started making
the planet unlivable. Earth, Mars, and the two planets we've
just mentioned dwell closer to the sun because of their
heavy rocky weight, whereas the gas giants dwell further
away due to their light gases of which they are composed.
This suggests a natural explanation for our solar system and
not a divinely created one. Planets like Saturn and Uranus
have rings because of collisions of massive meteors ages
ago. Moons have craters for the same reason. Moons
themselves form by way of catastrophes. Our earth wobbles
on its axis causing storms and natural catastrophes, not to
mention ice ages. Were it not for a decent electromagnetic
field, we would cook in cosmic solar radiation. We are one
planet of nine planets, orbiting a star which is only one of
several hundred billion in just our galaxy. At least, 125 billion
other galaxies exist rendering earth as insignificant as a
speck of dust orbiting a quasar 8 billion light years away.
Astronomy testifies to man's departure as the supremely
important being in the universe! Earth is barely fit to our
survival and it won't be forever.

Whether its astronomy, biology, cosmology, or zoology, the
natural sciences forever remove god's role as ruler of the
universe.

#11) I am an atheist because God's living room has
been getting smaller and smaller each generation:
As we said, the sciences, with one voice, with one voice,
force God out of the picture. He must find a new home in the
world. Now God lives only in the gaps of our knowledge of
the world. Those gaps are closing quickly. We used to think
that the earth was flat. The bible even tells us so, "The
pillars of the earth tremble" (Job 9:6). Now we know better.
We used to think that earth was at the center of the universe
and unmoving. The bible even tells us so, "Who laid the
foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for
ever" (Psalm 104:5). Now we know better. We used to
believe that stars are just points of light in the sky. Indeed,
the bible tells us so.

The bible mentions two creations, the creation of the sun,
and the creation of the stars, "And God made two great
lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to
rule the night: he made the stars also" (Genesis 1:16).
Notice how God created the greater light (the sun) to rule
the day, and then as an afterthought, "made the stars also!"
This shows that the ancient writers of Genesis had no
understanding as to the nature of stars (if the bible were the
product of inspiration, it should!). Again, now we know better!
We used to believe that the earth was six thousand years
old. The bible implies every bit as much by adding up the
ages of the patriarchs and comparing the genealogies of
Jesus which go all the way back to creation (Matthew 1/Luke
3). Since Jesus said man was created, "from the beginning
of the creation" (Mark 10:6), this leaves no time for
additional eons to be inserted to account for the ancient
(billions of years old) earth that almost all scientists in the
world recognize to be the obvious truth.

These are a handful of thoughts, a short summation on why
I am an atheist. To me, it seems clear that the thinking
person is forced into this position. (JH)

  1. gravatar

    # by James Tracy - May 25, 2008 12:43 PM

    Joe, this and your story are really great. I have started a blog devoted to collecting atheist stories and testimonials and have featured you and your website in my latest post: http://www.anatheist.net

    I hope more people, especially current ministers harboring doubts, find your site!

  2. gravatar

    # by Joe E. Holman - May 25, 2008 9:26 PM

    Thanks, James.

    I appreciate both the compliments and your featuring me on your site. I'll add your site to my own list of links.

    Although, under the "recommended" sites link, you linked to my site correctly. The link does lead to me. But it's incorrectly put. It's not "ministerturnedatheist," but "ministerturnsatheist." Just thought I'd mention that.

    Thanks again!

    (JH)

  3. gravatar

    # by James Tracy - May 25, 2008 9:57 PM

    Easily corrected!

    Thanks,
    -James

  4. gravatar

    # by Andrew - June 4, 2008 4:58 PM

    An atheist has to believe what he does irrationally.

    Here is why: if there is no creative intelligence responsible for existence, then all existence, life, mind, and reason itself are the result of mindless processess.

    Science can not explain the origin of existence...the Big Bang for example only deals with a period immediately after the appearance of matter and energy, not with its appearance itself.

    Science cannot create life, either, and if it ever does it will certainly not be done by a mindless process. There are no examples in nature of life appearing from non-life...NONE.

    Existence, life, mind, and reason have thus not been demonstrated to occur by mindless processes.

    Atheists don't know that such demonstration can ever be made...they must simply declare this to be so.

    Until such demonstration is made, I reject atheism.

  5. gravatar

    # by James Tracy - June 5, 2008 2:03 AM

    Andrew,

    "if there is no creative intelligence responsible for existence, then all existence, life, mind, and reason itself are the result of mindless processess."

    What is responsible for the existence of this "creative intelligence"? Surely an intelligence powerful enough to create a universe must be far more complex than anything within the universe.

  6. gravatar

    # by Joe E. Holman - June 5, 2008 2:33 AM

    Andrew said...

    "An atheist has to believe what he does irrationally."

    My reply...

    Oh, I see we have us a genius here! Well, set me straight, Mr. Rational. How does it all work?

    You said...

    "Here is why: if there is no creative intelligence responsible for existence, then all existence, life, mind, and reason itself are the result of mindless processess."

    My reply...

    Ah, I see; so, if there IS creative intelligence behind existence, and everything is thereby removed from being a "mindless process," isn't the existence of your God himself a "mindless process"? He "just exists" apart from intelligence, right?

    I know it's hard for people like you to think, but do try, k?

    You said...

    "Science can not explain the origin of existence...the Big Bang for example only deals with a period immediately after the appearance of matter and energy, not with its appearance itself."

    My reply...

    Yeah, you're right. Foolish me for thinking that even if we don't have ALL the answers now, that maybe matter is still somehow its own explanation.

    Pop me in the head for thinking that maybe we stay with matter that we know exists instead of having a ghost creating it that we don't know exists.

    You said....

    "Science cannot create life, either, and if it ever does it will certainly not be done by a mindless process."

    My reply...

    Uh, buddy, you just gave ground in a very stupid fashion; you said that science cannot create life, and then you said that if it ever does, it will not be by a mindless process. Uh, you need to think before you write; if science truly "cannot" create life, then it will never happen, period. If it does happen, then the life that science creates would have been created under conditions like that of early earth, and so we would have won.

    And btw, Stanley Miller, 1953. Look up the experiment!

    You said...

    "There are no examples in nature of life appearing from non-life...NONE."

    My reply...

    But why? We explained this many times, Super Genius. It's because nature abhors vacuums. The means for life to abiogenerate in this atmosphere is no longer possible. Every scientist knows that.

    Your expectation that life should just keep popping into existence all around us is both irrational and comical.

    You said...

    "Existence, life, mind, and reason have thus not been demonstrated to occur by mindless processes."

    My reply...

    How could they have been? None of us are that old! Damn, you're smart!!!

    You said...

    "Atheists don't know that such demonstration can ever be made...they must simply declare this to be so.

    Until such demonstration is made, I reject atheism."

    My reply...

    Ok, buddy. You do that. You go right along with the much better theory--that a ghost sat around not knowing what to do with himself, so created everything--he himself having no creator!

    (JH)

  7. gravatar

    # by Andrew - June 5, 2008 6:30 AM

    Hey, you mentioned the Miller experiment!

    Wow...maybe he has something there!

    I looked it up.

    He didn't create life, and the consensus now is that the conditions he assumed did not exist.

    But nice try.

    (Just kidding, I already knew about Miller...but apparently you didn't, GENIUS.)

    And you certainly begged the question of abiogenesis...you say every scientists know its impossible in this environment.

    But the point is that they know its impossible in any environment without direction...and believe me, they have been trying; as I presented in my either/or scenario.

    But you keep saying that just because we don't have all the answers now (agreed...we are not even close)doesn't mean we won't in the future.

    Keep the faith!

    In the meantime, I don't think I have to take too seriously a guy who says he has no problem with torture and death penalies.

    At least you admitted it, you honest guy you. (LOL)

  8. gravatar

    # by Joe E. Holman - June 5, 2008 9:06 AM

    Andrew the Annoying Gnat said...

    "Hey, you mentioned the Miller experiment!

    Wow...maybe he has something there!

    I looked it up.

    He didn't create life, and the consensus now is that the conditions he assumed did not exist."

    My reply...

    MY God, you're such a fucking genius, I am in aw!!!

    It didn't create cauliflauer and mildew, or life itself, you idiot, but it did create amino acids, the buildings blocks of proteins, and gave tons of good data about life formation. It was a marvellous breakthru for science.

    But that's right; you have no respect for science. You only want to see it denigrated and beaten down because it spits on your savior as he floats up to heaven like Mary Poppins.

    And of course our knowledge of the conditions of early earth has somewhat changed. It's in the nature of science to experiment and learn more. No one test is going to settle it all. But here again, you know nothing. You have no respect for science.

    You said...

    (Just kidding, I already knew about Miller...but apparently you didn't, GENIUS.)

    My reply...

    Now why would you say I didn't? Aw, it's ok, nevermind. Just go onto bed, and I'll be there to tuck you in in a minute.

    You said...

    And you certainly begged the question of abiogenesis...you say every scientists know its impossible in this environment.

    My reply...

    It is impossible in THIS (current) environment.

    You said...

    But the point is that they know its impossible in any environment without direction

    My reply...

    They don't know that, which is why they are still searching...searching, always earching. Science is still very young, and we haven't even been able to probe Europa yet, and you're gonna tell me NASA KNOWS conclusively that it is impossible for life to have emerged from abiogenesis?

    It's Wayside Calvary Chapel and your local Baptist church that "knows" that, not educated scientists.

    You said...

    But you keep saying that just because we don't have all the answers now (agreed...we are not even close)doesn't mean we won't in the future.

    Keep the faith!

    My reply...

    Smart people stay with matter which we know exists and not "super-matter" like you only think exists.

    Go preach somewhere, little man. A local Community Church is itchin to have you!

    You said...

    In the meantime, I don't think I have to take too seriously a guy who says he has no problem with torture and death penalies.

    My reply...

    Yeah, if I were an authority, and I found some Habib who knew where a bomb was going to go off and he refused to talk, then, yes, as a last resort, I'd go for torture to save lives.

    But your deity? He tortures FORVER just because people rub him wrong, but you give him a pass on it anyway.

    And the death penalty? Read Romans, stupid! (Romans 13:1-7) It teaches the death penalty! Me, I happen to just believe in it because it's a great way to eliminate too many worthless people.

    Your idiocy is dumbfounding!

    (JH)

  9. gravatar

    # by John - August 9, 2008 11:12 PM

    The exchange between Joe and Andrew here I found quite disconcerting. Andrew's comments read like what fundamentalist Christians say out loud from the pulpit to people they feel are beneath them. Joe's comments to Andrew sound like what fundamentalist Christians say to one another about atheists(!) and rival denominations when they think no one else is listening.

    Don't take this the wrong way but, consequently, I (as someone who is struggling with the internal debate of whether to rejoin the Church or to accept atheism) am having trouble taking either of you seriously.

  10. gravatar

    # by Joe E. Holman - August 10, 2008 12:56 AM

    John said...

    "The exchange between Joe and Andrew here I found quite disconcerting. Andrew's comments read like what fundamentalist Christians say out loud from the pulpit to people they feel are beneath them. Joe's comments to Andrew sound like what fundamentalist Christians say to one another about atheists(!) and rival denominations when they think no one else is listening.

    Don't take this the wrong way but, consequently, I (as someone who is struggling with the internal debate of whether to rejoin the Church or to accept atheism) am having trouble taking either of you seriously."


    My reply...

    Hi, John.

    First off, if indeed you seek truth and have respect for logic and the scientific method, then no internet exchange will have any bearing whatsoever in your search for truth. You make it sound like you expect atheists to be inviting like some church should be to draw in new members. It's not like that, friend. As for taking me "seriously," well, you either agree with me or you don't. Factuality or lack thereof stands apart from character concerns.

    Second, if you'll read Andrew's other posts, you'll see that he is an infuriating little gnat of a man who said some disrespectful things in a number of places on my site, which is why I went off at him. He's an intolerant kid who knows nothing, but seeks to throw his views on others. I have made no bones about the fact that I am often NOT patient, and I will speak my mind. I am not some cordial patsy who always aims to adjust his tie for the camera and is polite. That's just the way I am.

    (JH)

  11. gravatar

    # by a-ri-sen - August 12, 2008 11:49 PM

    Hi Joe,

    Meaning no disrespect, but from what I know of you from your site, you seem to have gone from making your living preaching Christianity to making a living dissing Christianity. As a former "Christian" myself (thankfully it was only a few months...I research fast and my bunk-detector went off pretty much right away after a preacher came and told us Christianity is different from other religions because it's not a "religion" - what a hypocritical load of drivel, and they all believe it...)

    But anyway, my point is, your life still seems to revolve around Christianity some way or other. Don't you have other things to do? Like go to college, learn a new skill, help people...(I dunno, maybe you're already doing those things.)

    I just think it's a bit cheap to bite the hand that fed you all those years. Lies or no lies, bunk or no bunk, those people were your friends, and Christianity still means a lot to them. I would never "evangelise" atheism to my Christian friends (especially since they still think I'm a Christian...I don't have the heart to tell them the truth so I'm avoiding them for a while) as it would just be plain disrespectful. I can see why Christians don't like people who turn their back on their faith and then "tell all" and write books about how they were "conned". I mean nobody forced you to believe, you believed because you wanted to believe and no amount of peer pressure can excuse your hand in your self-delusion. It's all a bit exhibitionistic, that's all. I mean, Christians are still people and mostly nice people at that, so I think it's a bit mean and insensitive to demolish the God that they hold so dear. They believe because they want to believe, not because they've been kidnapped and brainwashed. If they want to keep their faith, they will; otherwise they'll see the light sooner or later.

    The whole point of freedom of religion is that people are free to practice whatever faith they choose. Thank Humans we have (at least nominal) separation of church and state. If the world became a theocracy then atheists might have to become more radical. But hey, science and technology and economics kind of rule the world anyway, so nothing to worry about (except climate change and world poverty and blah blah blah (which, ironically, none of the Christians I know seem to have any interest in), but that's a whole other rant).

    Perhaps it would be kinder and more sensible to simply walk away and let Christians be Christians. In the meantime maybe you can join the real world and do something non-religious with your life.

    Just my (atheistic) two cents.

    PS. Sorry for my condescending tone. I like your website, I got quite a few laughs out of it but is publishing "tell all" books about your experiences really necessary? What do your friends and family think? They may be Christian, but they are still your friends and family. Remember that. To be intolerant of other people's beliefs would render you a hypocrite.

  12. gravatar

    # by Joe E. Holman - August 13, 2008 12:15 AM

    a-ri-sen, you need to get a clue. I have TONS of things in my life that are far and away removed from freethought altogether. Believe me, you have no idea! I spend very little time with this these days. That's no joke.

    But your snotty, preachy assumptions about my supposed obsession with "preaching" atheism mirrors the idiocy of newfangled religionists who call atheism a church. That's totally wrong and totally stupid.

    The reason I make my experiences known are not for comfortable Christians, but for those who are seeking to break free from Christianity and have no one to fall back on. I make my experiences available to those who want to know about them, not to those who don't. But you wouldn't know that because you assume that because your cut-and-dry deconversion was so wrapped up and user-friendly that everyone else's will be. You are wrong, and your unjust efforts to make Christians look like poor, helpless victims who are being bashed by some evil atheist is unwarranted and wrong.

    These Goddist-elitists put presidents in power who think God wants them there, they censor books and television, they do everything they can to make this democracy an under-the-table theocracy and silence their adversaries, and you pity them?

    Poor Christians...if only we atheists hadn't spoken out in the 1950s, then we wouldn't have been given blasphemy charges and thrown in jail. Yeah, poor, poor Christians!

    And for your information, there are many ministers and Christians out there who are trying to throw off their shrouds of piety, but are opposed by these intolerant idealists. Your opposition is misplaced, my friend--gravely misplaced!

    (JH)

  13. gravatar

    # by Survivor Fledgling - December 3, 2008 9:07 AM

    when I have constipation, i think of this blog, it helps me go.

  14. gravatar

    # by GreatApe - December 5, 2008 7:54 PM

    First of all, I have to wonder out-loud what an "atheist" is doing with the screen name
    "a-ri-sen?” Are people supposed to take you seriously? Have you “arisen” to science, atheism, or are you—as I suspect-- referring to the mythical “arisen” christ? Your letter to Joe is transparent, and makes it pretty clear that you are STILL living in the “christian closet” and are too afraid to be honest with yourself, let alone with other people (like your friends, and your family). In my opinion, you are simply "trolling" and posing as an atheist by condemning religion in your opening paragraph, and then APOLOGIZING for it throughout the rest of your letter!

    Personally, I don’t place ANY value on your “bunk-detector” or the “research” you profess to do in order to find the truth in life. First of all, if you only talked to ONE preacher who told you that Christianity was not a “religion” and you left the faith based upon ONE preacher’s point of view...well, then your “bunk-detector” is certainly prejudicial, and your “research” is basically non-existent—one source, does not constitute research, and anyone who believes that one preacher speaks for an entire religious faith is as closed –minded as ANY christian fundamentalist! Why not tell us the WHOLE story as to why you are no longer a christian, arisen? What are YOU hiding? After all, if you can’t even be truthful, honest, or sincere with your friends and family, and you’re willing to deceive them about “leaving christianity” then why would a community of atheists ever believe you to be sincere? No disrespect, but I certainly don’t trust you, believe you, or LIKE you!

    Oh, but wait…you were ”only a christian for a few months”—which means you REALLY need to explain why you won’t be truthful with your friends and family about leaving the faith! You have no long–term investment (unless you’re lying). Yet you say that being truthful to your friends about leaving the faith would be “disrespectful” and so you are willing to lie to them instead! NICE! That ONLY makes sense in a religious world-view, and you – arisen--cannot possibly be a sincere atheist, in my opinion. Yet you have the gall to judge a man who invested his entire life up to the point he left the ministry and christianity? A man who -- through intense examination of the bible, theological scholarship, fellowship, and biblical preaching – finally decided that he was wrong, and had the courage to stand up, make changes, and shift his path in life? You have the nerve to accuse Joe of being “cheap” and of “biting the hand which fed him” when he admits in his de-conversion post that he sought these people out for guidance and help! THEY turned their backs on Joe when he needed answers and support. When he came to them with legitimate questions, they provided religious rhetoric, or they pointed their fingers and accused him of blasphemy. For all I know, YOU MAY HAVE BEEN ONE OF THEM! Face it, one of the major hypocrises of christianity is that they love to help people who are easy or convenient to “help,” but when anyone has a SERIOUS issue with their faith, when they struggle too greatly to believe the god fairytale, or when the “help” religious believers need to provide is too messy for them, then they ARE THE FIRST PEOPLE to turn their backs on one another. Just like the Catholics…it’s all about shaking hands and “peace BE WITH YOU!” while you’re in the church at Sunday mass, but once you hit that parking lot, it’s every man for himself, and a rush to get out first, with the “middle-finger salute” to anybody who gets in the way!

    You’re a hypocrite “arisen” and you have no guts and NO HEART to try to give “advice” and to condemn a former minister who has managed to straighten out his life and find a new and more honest manner of living. That Joe chooses to share his past, his present and his potential future with fellow atheists should be no business of yours if you are not interested or if you so vehemently disagree with him. You can simply GO AWAY. Your “criticisms” of him are not “respectful” and—true to form—when a person says (or writes) the phrase “meaning no disrespect” as you did in your opening paragraph, you can bet your last dollar that what is going to follow that phrase will be disrespectful.

    As far as Joe’s post being “exhibitionistic”…that is also sour grapes. Here’s a man who’s had years of experience living in a certain way, believing certain things, and trying to maintain a certain façade. He’s come through the other side of that struggle—that LIE!--…he’s changed and adapted, and he’s won some things and lost some things along the way! Yet you—as an atheist—would rather judge him, and accuse him of being an exhibitionist? Joe’s perspective is unique because he was a minister, because he graduated from seminary school, and because he can provide that point-of-view to an audience (not exclusively atheist) most of whom have had very little contact of the world behind the “black veil” (to borrow a phrase from Nathaniel Hawthorne).

    It seems to me that you – arisen—would rather label transparency “exhibitionism.” You don’t truly seek truth or transparency, not in your own life, and certainly not in the life of christian fundamentalism. You avoid transparency and honesty. You HIDE from it. You want no part of the kind of transparency which is lacking in so many areas of Christianity. Whether those areas are the issues of multiple wives in the mormon faith, the lunacy of aliens in scientologys, or the raping of young children at the hands of the catholics! Of course YOU can understand why christians hate people who leave the faith and then write “tell-all” books! I’d hate them too if I wanted to continue living a LIE! Doesn’t the bible say something about demons or wickedness or evil hating the light of truth?

    Finally, I have no idea what world you’re living in as far as reality is concerned. The United States –with the presidency of George W. Bush—has just come about as close as it can come to a “theocracy” and yet you would apologize for that rather than address it. You believe we have as much separation of church and state as we need, and that “science, technology, and economics “kind of rule the world.” Apparently you’re not aware of one MAJOR component of the world’s problems these days and that is, namely, religious fanatics from all the worlds major religions killing one another in god’s name (whichever god they chose to represent). From the terrorism of 9/11 to terrorism in places like Britain, Spain, and Mumbai to the religious and ethnically-motivated killings in Palestine, Israel, Russia, Somalia (Africa), Jordan, Turkey, Lebanon, Iraq, India, Syria, Pakistan, and Afghanistan, you’re oblivious to it all!

    But hey — “arisen”…that’s just my (atheistic) two cents. And you need to understand that the religions of the world have had it their way long enough, and that voices like Joe’s are valued in an atheist community which includes rising atheist voices from the fields of Science, Mathematics, Art, Economics, Politics, Philosophy, Education, and Literature. Joe’s opinion, experiences and writing is WELCOMED by people who are not afraid to speak OR HEAR truth, diversity of discourse, skepticism, rational thought, and anti-religious criticism. So….my advice to you is PICK A SIDE, partner! DECIDE which side you’re on, and quit living your lie. You’ll feel better, and you might just learn something, or, you might choose to go back into your religious shell, stay myopic, live in fear of your actions, your opinions, and your death.

    P.S. I hope you didn’t take offense at the things which I said…I certainly didn’t mean to come off as condescending or mean-spirited. But then again, I did say “no offense”….

  15. gravatar

    # by Dane Eidson - May 3, 2009 3:02 AM

    I just want to go on record again to thank you Joe for giving me the courage to go public about my atheism.
    I sort of laugh a little to myself when I remember our Emails before I went public. I told little white lies by stating I was still in the zone of extreme doubt but still having a small amount of faith that Jesus Christ was real. I laugh because I was worried you would announce I was an atheist. And I laugh too because I realize you probably already knew I was already an atheist and just too scared to admit it! (I like your pet phrase, "undercover atheist", because it is so spot on), and that you really did keep your promise of confidentiality.
    A lot of the things you shared that would happen to me by the actions of loved ones and whom I thought were friends did in fact happen. But the gain of the true peace and confidence in no longer being ashamed for being an atheist out weighs all the negatives by far!
    Joe, your life story was a big help to me. Especially me being a former Christian evangelical fundametalist pastor just as you were. I identified with your biography in so many similar ways.
    I am finding out there are more undercover atheists behind Church pulpits preaching ever Sunday than I thought possible.
    Thank you Joe for your inspiration. Keep it up! More will join us and more will go public!